SEATTLE P-I: Penalty too small

NOTE and REQUEST from yours truly: Use the link to view the article at the P-I website and VOTE in their survey (should fines be paid by the "public treasury" or the offending "individual official"?) and/or POST A COMMENT at the P-I website - PLEASE DO BOTH, BUT AT LEAST CAST A VOTE. AY

Today's Seattle Post-Intelligencer says:

Public Disclosure: Penalty too small

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinion/238451_finesed.asp

Tuesday, August 30, 2005

Public Disclosure: Penalty too small

SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER EDITORIAL BOARD

At the risk of sounding like spendthrifts of the public purse, we have to agree with Armen Yousoufian that the largest award ever in a state public records case is simply not large enough.

The King County Superior Court last week ordered King County to pay nearly $300,000 in fines and costs for failing to comply with the Public Disclosure Act in producing documents Yousoufian began asking for in 1997, some of which he has yet to receive.

After County Executive Ron Sims and other proponents of building a new Seahawks football stadium in 1997 touted its benefits reflected in an economic study, Yousoufian did a reasonable thing: He asked to see that and other such studies as well as the specifics on how they were paid for. The county stonewalled, until Yousoufian sued in 2000.

Yousoufian appealed the $5 per-document fines first levied in Superior Court. The Washington Supreme Court agreed, in part, and sent the case back to the local court, allowing fines as high as $100 per wrongly withheld document. Last week's ruling bumped the fines to $15 per document.
We hardly wish bankruptcy for the county, but a stiffer per-document fine would have supplanted the usual slap on the wrist with the sort of smack in the face that seems necessary to focus public officials' attention on the importance of the public's right to know.

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Is it fair to take public disclosure fines from the taxpayers or should officials themselves have to pay?
Public treasury should pay. Individual officials should pay.

Here's what's 20 people have commented so far (comment #'s are P-I's, and presumably are sequential for all comments to their website, not just on this editorial):

#824
Posted by qwert at 8/30/05 8:15 a.m.
It’s about simple accountability. Hold me accountable for my actions and I will be more responsible. The same goes for government employees and elected officials. If you don’t you end up with the government that we currently have; King County Elections is a prime example.

#836
Posted by messenger at 8/30/05 11:07 a.m.
The penalty needs to be severe enough to deter the bad behavior. I think it's outrageous that King County can stonewall for 7 years and the penalty is only $15 per day. The penalty range goes from $5 to $100, as I understand it.

The message this sends to government is that it's worth the risk to withhold records. Most citizens don't have the resources to take them to court and they know that.

#841
Posted by Old Nick at 8/30/05 11:28 a.m.
A significant portion of this penalty should be paid personally by King County Executive Ron Simms. It was under his direction that critical information was withheld from the taxpayers of King County. I fail too see why he is still employed by King County. If the voters fail to force his ouster then they become complicit in his deception and deserve to pay for his abuse of office.

#842
Posted by bk425 at 8/30/05 11:35 a.m.
This is far far to small an award, in a county with nationally renowned accountability problems it shows that people standing up and demanding that government follow it's own rules will end up pushing against tons of beuracy waiting and spending years of their life and get... not much more then legal costs. That's a danger to public trust and one we cannot afford.

It'd be nice to see Ron Sims stuck with this bill but who thinks he would write a check for this (piddling) amount and move on from public life? Never happen, he'd declare bankruptcy, have political friends finance a PR campaign against the issue and be right back in office. This is ultimately a taxpayer responsibility. We are responsible for electing people like Ron Sims. We should be holding him responsible by seeing that he never holds office again. (Having him pay would be a relatively minor bonus).

#848
Posted by retiredfeds at 8/30/05 11:56 a.m.
If the courts will not impose reasonable fines to prevent having public officals refuse to comply with PDA statutes -- how about a legislative change eliminatling the public offical's transactional immunity and requiring the offening offical to pay the fine(s) using their own money, instead of taxpayer money.

Armen Yousoufian fought this battle for everyone who life is effected by politicians who feel that they are above public review.

Bottom Line = It cost Sims nothing to ignore the law

#856
Posted by Screenedge at 8/30/05 1:00 p.m.
It's easy to forget that all the legal expenses used to fight Yousoufian in court were paid from the public treasury. How many citizens can really afford this kind of battle?

Unless heavy penalties can be directed against governmental bodies, there is no hope that effective disclosure can be compelled.Government decision makers should have a substantial portion of their compensation tied to an incentive plan. Penalties for improper disclosure, along with other misbehavior, should diminish the incentive portion

Posted by watchdog at 8/30/05 1:35 p.m.
It is obsurd to even consider that the County should pay such a fine.

WE are the County folks, and WE voted against the stadium, and WE did not hinder, block or deny access to public records...RON SIMS did! Let Ron Sims pay out of his own pocket.

#860
Posted by watchdog at 8/30/05 1:35 p.m.
It is obsurd to even consider that the County should pay such a fine.

WE are the County folks, and WE voted against the stadium, and WE did not hinder, block or deny access to public records...RON SIMS did! Let Ron Sims pay out of his own pocket.

#861
Posted by MarkS Bellevue at 8/30/05 1:36 p.m.
Open access to our government's analyses and delibertions of public issues is among the most valuable of our democratic protections. Officeholder actions to prevent or delay such action should be met with the stiffest possible penalties.

#863
Posted by Kiana at 8/30/05 1:51 p.m.
Ron Sims should have to pay those fines himself, as he is the one who would not comply with the requests. Letting him take this out of our pockets to finance his corruption is just plain wrong. Please don't vote for this man in November. He has abused his power enough.

#874
Posted by SeattleVoter at 8/30/05 5:12 p.m.
The King County Prosecuting Attorney’s Ofc protects it’s Government Officials, not its citizens who try to hold them accountable. How much of what King County suppresses does not become public knowledge for this very reason?

Mr. Yousoufian accomplished what I believe is a great feat of self sacrifice and integrity. For Mr. Sims, this is a done deal, and no action needs to be taken or will be taken to hold anyone in King County Government accountable.

The big loser here is the King County taxpayer.

What about all the other King County taxpayer money pits? Financial Systems Replacement Program? Allegations of Bid rigging.. with federal dollars? Elections? How many unsigned contracts are not in place and costing King County buckets of money? How many King County whistle-blowers are prevented from speaking out because King County investigates itself due to a flawed policy? I am sure Mr. Sims is relieved there are not a lot of Armen Yousoufians out there, (but there should be).

What changes have been made within King County because of this law suit?

Where is your accountability Mr. Sims? (from a former King County employee)

#877
Posted by mjcostello at 8/30/05 5:58 p.m.
If Sims and other King County officials were held personally responsible for their wrongdoing, boy would our county change in a hurry, or what? I have made several PDA requests of King County myself, and while the process is overly protective of the information and wrought with delays, there is absolutely no way for the citizen to know whether the county has turned over everything they have.

I suspect that anything too embarrassing or affirming of wrongdoing, easily finds its way into the round file.

#882
Posted by Sammamish Citizen at 8/30/05 8:15 p.m.
The County, not Ron Sims, should pick up the tab for the PDA violation. However, perhaps the law should be changed such that along with a fine could come a censure of the individual(s) deemed responsible for the violation, with a public apology or a significant fine as being the two options for the violator.


In this particular case the fine was inappropriately low for such a flagrant abuse. It probably didn't even cover Armen Yousoufian's expenses, let alone the enormous time committed to this action by Mr. Yousoufian. A judgment on the order of $1.5 million, plus a censure, would have Mr. Sims (or his staff) thinking twice before stonewalling a citizen again.

#884
Posted by Registered Democrat at 8/30/05 9:33 p.m.
Of all the Democratic principles that make for a responsive government, those of open public records go the the top of the list. No open records, no accountability, and the community becomes dominated by a self-selected gang of good old boys - as King County now is, due to its mindless one-party voting.

Some of those good old boys sit as judges on various courts, and slap down the citizens when they sue for a revote on the bait-and-switch Sound Transit scam. When they're not doing that, they decree laughably token fines against County officials who Bogart public records for literally years. In short, $15 per record is a mere tickle, punishes no one except the taxpayer, and creates no incentive whatever to change the ways of the stonewallers.

The officials involved, from the ladder-climbing attorneys in the front lines to the potbellied Executives reaping the benefits of enforced public ignorance, should definitely bear the fines levied against such stonewalling. Only the fines should first be quadrupled.

#886
Posted by Scott Lindsley at 8/30/05 10:00 p.m.
I migrated towards the Libertarian Party because of the long list of (R)'s and (D)'s that acted in the manner you have described here.

I can not understand how people can keep voting for representation that consistently violates the rules set up to keep our elected officials in line.

We, the Libertarians, have been demanding an end to waste since we formed over three decades ago.

We insist on accountability and transparency, especially as the dollar amount our politicians handle increases.

This level of trust should NEVER be too much to ask of our elected officials.

Scott Lindsley
Chair, Libertarian Party of King County


#889
Posted by keithlj at 8/31/05 12:02 a.m.
Our founding fathers made sure the government could not bully the citizens by establishing a local militia and establishing the right of the bearing of arms by the state and its citizens. Do we now need to establish higher financial risks for those who oppose the equality of the political system. Something must definitely be done in September and November to remedy this situation. For it seems the voice of the vote has a greater punishment than the power of might. The Iraqi elections again have shown this to be true. The masses can upset the power of the might of the current political establishment. We do not have three branches of government but rather four. The fourth being the court of the voting citizen. This is the most powerful of all.

#890
Posted by romeomoon at 8/31/05 1:51 a.m.
RCW 42.177.251The people of this state do not yield their sovereignty to the agencies that serve them. The people, in delegating authority, do not give their public servants the right to decide what is good for the people to know and what is not good for them to know. The people insist on remaining informed so that they may maintain control over the instruments that they have created. The public records subdivision of this chapter shall be liberally construed and its exemptions narrowly construed to promote this public policy.

#894
Posted by messenger at 8/31/05 6:51 a.m.
Things are even worse now that the Supreme Court ruled that municipalities can hide behind "attorney-client privilege" even when there is no threat of lawsuit (the Hangartner decision). I have personally seen the effects of this when I asked for e-mails to and from councilmembers and was told most of them were privileged. Looks like all they have to do is send a copy to their attorney for review and public disclosure is no longer a problem.

#898
Posted by Live Free at 8/31/05 10:37 a.m.
If a public official acts within the law and is sued, then it is proper that fines be paid by the agency he or she works for. However, when that official acts in violation of the law, not only should that person be personally liable, they also should be held criminally liable. Were this to happen, I believe we would see a lot more public officials abiding within the law. Mr. Simms acted in violation of the law.

In addition, we absolutely need a looser pays law in this country. Mr. Yousoufian should have been completely reimbursed for all legal expenses incurred in this litigation.

#909
Posted by chuck pillon at 8/31/05 5:17 p.m.
the drama set in motion by the courageous mr. yousoufian stands alone in eloquent reflection of the addage about power corrupting...ron sims et all haven't the first damn to give in response to their exposure here...they are the very ones who would obstruct any attempt to hold "public servants" accountable for their arrogant acts...thus perpetuating the moral vacuum they camoflage themselves in...any who doubt this arrogance has metasticized should look at a Sno. Cty lawsuit (03-2-05287-4) against sims et al in which egregious violation of state law in reference to the DDES permitting process IS ADMITTED BY SIMS AND MINIONS...a $12, 000,000 slush fund has been extorted from builder developers and the cost to the taxpayers is going to exceed the toll in the yousoufian matter exponentially because the Sno Cty Court has teeth...and the media need to look themselves in the eye here too..."mr. armen's opus" didnt just pop up on the horizon..."horatio" has been at this for years...'bout time for some coverage on the matter...and while i'm at it...the referenced Sno Cty file has been on local media desktops for months now...how 'bout it "MR. P.I."??? GOT A LITTLE SPACE FOR THIS COMPANION INDICATOR OF SUCH GOVT "CHUTZPAH"???

#914
Posted by SamT at 8/31/05 8:28 p.m.
Armen Yousoufian has had to do the battle we all should be doing. Unfortunately, our lack of standards for public officials leads us all the way to the past president of the US. When the US House of Representatives held Bill Clinton accountable for his lying, I held up my hands and cried "Yeah!". Then, when the US Senate voted to let Clinton stay in office, I said to myself, "How can I tell my 11 year old son that it is important to tell the truth and uphold the law, when the President of the United States is not even given a wrist slap for what he did?"

Not to get too far afield, but I felt the most important issue with the Clinton issue was never addressed by any media or anyone that talked to about the matter. We already know there are foreign governments with "registered lobbyists" operating in this country. Don't get me wrong, these people are operating legally. The problem that I felt should have come out, was the likelihood that some of these people had wind of Clinton's issues long before they became public. Aaannnd, here is the big issue: What was to keep these people from going to Clinton and saying, "Give me ..., or I will tell on you." If you think these lobbyists are any more honest than our politicians, well ....

The reason I bring this issue up, is because Ron Sims has similar issues. At the beginning, when he started withholding records, you KNOW that he was not the only one privy to the fact that he was withholding information. Not everyone is dishonest in our government, but it is naive to believe there are not some who are very dishonest. What could they have gotten from Sims? Since, this issue has been adjudicated, and Ron Sims has been found to be guilty, we know he is dishonest!

We now look at Ron Sims and condemn his actions, but they are no different than those of Bill Clinton. We get upset, but settle back in our chairs and go back to sleep. All the politicians know this! Have you gotten upset enough about any political issue to even write your congressmen/women? Have you ever gotten mad enough about how you are getting less than honest answers from the politicians to actually do something? Have you taken the time to talk to your legislators? Do you know them well enough to say, "This is the person I want to vote for?" I know you don't want to hear this, but don't blame the Bill Clintons' and the Ron Sims' when you sit on your backside and do nothing. When was the last time you helped to "Get out the vote." for a person you believed in?

I have looked through the previous postings on this issue and the poll, and over 90% believe Ron Sims should pay the fine himself. The question is, "How are you going to get our legislators to enact the laws to cause this to happen?" Most of them are sitting there saying to themselves, "Boy, it's a good thing I didn't get caught on ... because I would have had to pay a fine. I better vote this fine thing down."

It is my understanding (maybe incorrectly) that the Public Disclosure Act that Armen used was enacted by the people using the referendum procedure, not by the legislature. It is incredible to me that this right is not so basic and so intertwined with the idea of democracy that it should be in our United States Bill of Rights, and that federal constitutional law should govern this area of law. It is ridiculous to have any exemptions to this law, except perhaps, national security. There is nothing dishonest people like better than a big wall to hide behind. Anybody who thinks we have a "JUSTICE" system should wake up and smell the sewage. We have a "LEGAL" system that protects the very people who should be brought to justice, and a legislative system that backs and upholds the walls that protect them so they can continue to do the mischief they do.

I have my own experience with the Public Disclosure Act, and I can tell you that the law is sound. The problem is in the judges who ignore the law. They understand that their salary is paid by the County that they are sitting in judgement of. They understand that they will have to stand up at the local watering hole to the politicians who will castigate them for following the law. Who has more weight, the individual bringing the lawsuit on a shoestring, and will be gone as soon as the judge gives them a horrible verdict, or the politicians and peer group who see them day in and day out. That is the real battle you are talking about. Only the light of the media can shine bright enough to force the cockroaches out of hiding, and our media does not seem to be very interested.

Latest poll results at 9:00 PM, August 31, 2005:

Is it fair to take public disclosure fines from the taxpayers or should officials themselves have to pay?
9.6% Public treasury should pay.
90.4% Individual officials should pay.
Total Votes: 509